TTD Forum

The CRP-2401C1+ has a bug in handling DVB subtitles in recordings. I have the beta firmware CRP2401CIplus_42031_2012April04.tfd.

So far I haven't witnessed any problems when watching a live program, but watching the same program from a recording, the subtitles often disappear. Sometimes they come back after a while, and sometimes you can bring them back using various tricks. So the subtitle stream is there but Topfield just stops showing it. A related nuisance is, that when I rewind the program at these spots, the Topfield performs a restart.

The bug is repeatable, the subs disappear always at the same spots in the recording. It affects at least the DVB standard subtitles used by the Finnish national broadcasting company (YLE), but similar problems are seen also in some subscribed channels, at least Canal+. I don't know what subtitle type C+ uses, but there the subs may also get out of sync quite a lot.

TAPs have no effect on this bug, I have tested with and without.

Just in case you weren't aware of this..

Best regards,
Mikko

Hi Japi,

yeah, you're absolutely right in noticing this. I've found the same problems with recordings made from the BBC and from ITV channels on my SRP-2401CI+. Obviously, not too much accuracy has been put into displaying subtitles when engineering the last two firmwares. What annoys me most is the fact that - although it's termed a "multimedia PVR" - subtitles are also lost when playing *.ts-files made with other devices (such as computer tv cards).
A couple of weeks ago I added the following entry to the forum:
viewtopic.php?t=44656
(Sorry this is in German. I hope you can cope.) However, there wasn't a single answer...
I've made several tests with different *ts-files, also deleting the subtitles from the ts-container and adding them as an extra *.srt or *.sub file. Yet, nothing's worked ok.
And, as you claimed in your entry, it is a nuiscance that the indigenous *.rec format drops quite a number of subtitle lines without any recognisable reason.
Perhaps you can help revive the subtitle thread again. It would really be a pity if our 2401CI+ would lack this vital function.

Take care, greetings to Finland,
Flapjack

Hi!

if you have a sample recording (not too long) which we can use to reproduce the issue, please send me a PN and I will give you access data to an FTP-Server where you can upload the file.

Regards,
Gerti

Japi hat geschrieben:The CRP-2401C1+ has a bug in handling DVB subtitles in recordings. I have the beta firmware CRP2401CIplus_42031_2012April04.tfd. ...

I have this problem too.
I noticed that also fast forwarding and sometimes playing at these sports cause Topfield to perform a restart. This problem occur very often if there are multiple recordings from scrambled channels and Topfield has been used during recording.

Hi Gerti,

i got a new CRP-2401CI+ and have the same problems. The subtitles of i.e. bbc1 recordings is mixing up in time, mostly overwriting each other too early.

So if i can help out in sending a short recording as example, let me know.

Greets
Andreas

Does anyone know if CRP-2401CI+ fully comply to DVB-standard? International DVB-standard specifies that DVB-subtitles are supported based on the ETSI EN 300 743 standard.

[quote="DerElse"]Hi Gerti,

i got a new CRP-2401CI+ and have the same problems. The subtitles of i.e. bbc1 recordings is mixing up in time, mostly overwriting each other too early.

So if i can help out in sending a short recording as example, let me know.

Greets
Andreas[/quote]

In the meantime, i got this better working by choosing DVB (eng) instead of just "eng" for subtitle, which is the default option. After that, the subtitle timing is right now, but sometimes the subtitles are disappearing for a minute and i can't proof if there are any at all in this time interval.

With regards
Andreas

Japi hat geschrieben:The CRP-2401C1+ has a bug in handling DVB subtitles in recordings. I have the beta firmware CRP2401CIplus_42031_2012April04.tfd.

So far I haven't witnessed any problems when watching a live program, but watching the same program from a recording, the subtitles often disappear. Sometimes they come back after a while, and sometimes you can bring them back using various tricks. So the subtitle stream is there but Topfield just stops showing it. A related nuisance is, that when I rewind the program at these spots, the Topfield performs a restart.

Exactly same problems here. Im using CRP-2401CIplus_42031_2011Mar09.tfd firmware.
Avoiding restart when rewinding im using number keys to jump forward.
Really hope that Topfield will fix this problem.

Gerti hat geschrieben:Hi!

if you have a sample recording (not too long) which we can use to reproduce the issue, please send me a PN and I will give you access data to an FTP-Server where you can upload the file.

Regards,
Gerti

Hi Gerti,

I have a recording (Downton Abbey S03E01) with which the Finnish DVB subtitles disappear practially each time there is a longer section without dialogue / subtitles. With this recording I can also make the box perform a reboot practically each time I do the following after the subtitles disappear:

• pause
• subtitles off
• subtitles on
• rewind

The recording is ~3GB in size which makes it probably too big for FTP uploading. But if you have a snail mail address, I could burn the files to a DVD-R disc and deliver it to you by "conventional" means.

Regards,
Markus

I'm also curious as to why the same program when watched "live" (i.e. as broadcast) does not lose its DVB subtitles but when watched as a recording (or "delayed") does. I would assume that the logic to decode the subtitle stream would be the same for broadcast data and recorded programs.

I have also noticed that when recordings, which lose their subtitles, are streamed to my PC and watched with e.g. VLC Player, the subtitles stay on the whole time.


I have heard it said as an explanation for this issue that subtitling in Finland doesn't follow the DVB specification. I don't buy this because:

- There is no loss of subtitles when watching subtitled broadcasts
- External applications (e.g. VLC Player) are able to show full subtitles in recordings.

I am new to this site and came here because I been having issues with my new Topfield CRP-2401CI+.

The first issue is the one discussed in this thread i.e. DVB subtitles (or the lack of them).
I was just wondering does anyone have any insight whether this problem would be fixed
in the near future or do I just have to consider this as a Topfield "Feature"?

My other problem is even more annoying...
Time to time a recording or a time shifted program skips forward 30 seconds every 30 seconds,
making a program watching impossible.
So far I cannot say what might cause this as it is completely random.

Does anyone have experienced anything similar and furthermore if someone would have a solution
to fix this...

Thanks,
Markus

Welcome on board.
[quote="brody"]Time to time a recording or a time shifted program skips forward 30 seconds every 30 seconds, making a program watching impossible.[/quote]
Whenever this problem reappears, try to delete the .nav file. Does it still jump?

Of course I can delete the .nav file from a recorded program, but how about timeshifted program?
I mean if I just press pause on a live program, do something else and come back to watch again, but when I continue this weird jumping forward starts and it does it all the way until it catches the live stream again.
This doesn't happen every time, but I would say that it shouldn't happen at all as it is pretty annoying.

Otherwise I do like this digibox as it has so many good features compared what they sell here in Finland :-)

The reason for my question was if we can pin it down to the .nav. If it would be a firmware bug, I guess that other Finnish user would experience the problem – though they might report it in a Finnish forum and not here. As a last resort, you could do a factory reset and start with fresh settings.

I now deleted the .nav from a recording that has this forward skipping problem. It actually helped for the skipping so it is now watchable, but it has some pixelation, probably on the places it used to skip.
So for the recordings this is kinda sorted, but any ideas what to with the same problem with time shifted program? I don't think there is any .nav's for time shift?

The reason I am seeking help here is that somehow here seems to be some really smart people at least regarding Topfield issues :-)

brody hat geschrieben:but it has some pixelation, probably on the places it used to skip.

That makes sense.

So for the recordings this is kinda sorted, but any ideas what to with the same problem with time shifted program? I don't think there is any .nav's for time shift?

There is a timeshift .nav but as it is used for live recording, you can’t simply delete it.

So the question is, why does the stream get disturbed? If I understood you correctly, if the problem appears, it will persist for some time. Does it happen on a specific frequency? Do you use any TAPs? Deactivate them for some time. You could also try a factory reset and start with a new scan.

I have tried couple of times to do a factory reset and quick scan for the channels...unfortunately that did not help. It seems to do this skipping on different MUX's, so I'm not sure if it is frequency related, but I'll have to keep an eye over that.
I have only one TAP running and that is PlasmaEPG - http://www.plasmaepg.net/en/index.html.
I haven't actually tried without that TAP yet, but I'll have to do that next.

It seems to me (not sure though) that this skipping effect comes when the Toppy has been on for some time (some hours). Changing channel does not help, but re-statrting the box does.
So I was wondering could this be some kind of "running out of memory" thing or something like that??

Thanks,
Markus

[quote="brody"]So I was wondering could this be some kind of "running out of memory" thing or something like that??[/quote]
It could be but then a lot of people should experience that behaviour.

i had a look at plasmaepg...nice tool, but looks a little bit old fashoned and it was easy to create a reboot
the first and last update is half an year ago...
why you use this tool?

twilight

I have been using PlasmaEPG for years now and I think the main reason is that I just like the layout.
You get a lot of program information in one screen, making it easier to browse what is on now and most of all what is coming in the near future :-)

How do you mean it was easy to create a reboot?

You would probably suggest SmartEPG and maybe I should check that out :-D