Sounds disappear after few seconds

[Eikka]

Does anyone knows which could cause sounds to disappear in descrambled recording after a few seconds of playback. This doesnt happen very often but still too often, I would say once in a fifty records or so. Original recordings, before descrambled with RebuildNAV/RecCopy, have sounds. Is there a way to get sounds back since original .recs have deleted by RecCopy? CRP-2401CI+ and firmware is the newest fw 05.02.2013

[Eikka]

Problem still occurs every once and a while.
Now I know that if I open scrambled channel during recording almost every time something happens to the sounds. Once I record "Falling Skies" and started watching it live and recording was on simultaneously. All went well but when I pressed pause and 90 seconds later continued watching sounds disappeared excatly that moment which were recorded until I releseated pause. etc after continuing watching souds were hearable that 90 seconds the pause was on. Then sounds newer came back and when the recording was over there where no souds after that same point.
Now I recorded scrambled channel and when I suggest the program was over I tunet to that channel and noticed that program was ended and I stopped the recording. Then I tried to playback that recording only to notice that there where no souds at all in whole recording... What in earth could cause this? Why souds are not acceccible on some recording if channel is watched during recording? Is there some settin etc in IQTuner or somewhere else to vause this?

[VaniQ]

Hi Eikka !

This topic is actually my SPECIALITY I think nobody knows more about it, than myself

In Switzerland we do have the same problem, also German guys who use the cableprovider KDG. A summary of this topic can be found here - it's German but no panic - I will translate it later on.

First of all to answer your question: The problem is caused by the firmware.

The problem exists while you record something from a CI+ coded channel and watch something, while in the backround the recording (CI+ coded) channel is live !

There exists a manual workaround: Before you watch something (while a CI+ coded movie/file is recording or is going to record) you have to change the live channel for example to MTV or a non CI+ coded channel or even a CI+ coded channel on the same transponder is possible.
But it's very important that the recording channel is not live (even in the backround).
This requires a lot of discipline but it worked for me at that time

Our accomplishments:
- If you have your CI+ Card in the upper slot --> soundless recordings.
- If you have your CI+ Card in the lower slot --> pictureless recordings.
- The problem doesn't exist if you watch something from an external harddisk.
- The first record from the channel creates soundless/pictureless recordings. A second record from the same channel doesn't create this problem.

So far the translation. Now you have written:

CRP-2401CI+ and firmware is the newest fw 05.02.2013

As far as I know (and all the others, who had this problem) the problem should be solved with the newest (and all available beta) firmware. This was exclusivly a problem with the 03.2011 firmware. So I'm a bit confused Are you sure, that you use the newest firmware ?
If so, you would be the first one rediscovering it

Greetings, VaniQ

[Eikka]

Hi,
Thanks for answer and workaround. I just checked that CI+ module and card in it is indeed in the upper slot but firmware is Feb5.2013.
For the workaround, is there a way check which channels are CI+ encoded or is the only way to ask my cable sercice provider?

"The problem exists while you record something from a CI+ coded channel and watch something, while in the backround the recording (CI+ coded) channel is live !".
Does this mean that if I never tune to the recording channel live, the recordings work OK? Or should it be so that the channel shouldn't been on since last power on, even before the recording starts? Can I start to playback ongoing recording if I start playback through archive with start from beginning?

"Before you watch something (while a CI+ coded movie/file is recording or is going to record) you have to change the live channel for example to MTV or a non CI+ coded channel or even a CI+ coded channel on the same transponder is possible.
But it's very important that the recording channel is not live (even in the backround)"
Should there be "if" instead "is" in bolded sentence? And does that mean if I had tuned to recording channel before the recording starts I need to tune it again and change to another channel which is broadcasted in same frequency?

[VaniQ]

For the workaround, is there a way check which channels are CI+ encoded or is the only way to ask my cable sercice provider?

Yes, there is a very simple way to find out. Just go the Channel-Overview (press the OK button). Every channel with a "yellow" $ sign is a CI+ coded channel.
Or the hard way just take your card out of the topf, now if you don't see a picture anymore - it is a CI+ coded channel.

"The problem exists while you record something from a CI+ coded channel and watch something, while in the backround the recording (CI+ coded) channel is live !".
Does this mean that if I never tune to the recording channel live, the recordings work OK? Or should it be so that the channel shouldn't been on since last power on, even before the recording starts? Can I start to playback ongoing recording if I start playback through archive with start from beginning?

I think you didn't really got it.
You only create soundless/pictureless files if you watch something while recording.
So if you don't watch something - no problem. No matter which channel is live.
Only if you watch something from the archive the (or future) recording channel should not be live.
Maybe it's clearer with my fictional example further down.

Normally the recording channel (especially a CI+ coded) should record live, so that you don't have to decode it afterwards (by RebuildNAV). So it makes completely sense that the default programm settings of the firmware are created this way.
But if you watch something while a CI+ coded recording is running you create anyway a file which has to be decoded (but without sound/pictures [if the recording channel in the backround is live]) so there is no additional work for the topf if you change the live channel. Test it out if you want.

Can I start to playback ongoing recording if I start playback through archive with start from beginning??

This question is not clear for me. What do you want to ask ? Please rephrase this question.

"Before you watch something (while a CI+ coded movie/file is recording or is going to record) you have to change the live channel for example to MTV or a non CI+ coded channel or even a CI+ coded channel on the same transponder is possible.
But it's very important that the recording channel is not live (even in the backround)"
Should there be "if" instead "is" in bolded sentence?

Ehm NO, this sentense is correct with the "is".
This is just an additional info. If you record several things that both tuner are occupied your channel selection may be limited, so it doesn't matter if you change the live channel to a channel on the same transponder.

"Before you watch something (while a CI+ coded movie/file is recording or is going to record) you have to change the live channel for example to MTV or a non CI+ coded channel or even a CI+ coded channel on the same transponder is possible.
(...) And does that mean if I had tuned to recording channel before the recording starts I need to tune it again and change to another channel which is broadcasted in same frequency?

More or less - yes. But the channel doesn't have to be on the same transponder (frequency) but it could.

Now to make it probably clearer for you a fictional example:
Assumption: BBC one is a CI+ coded channel.

1. You record the movie James Bond on BBC one. This channel is live (because you take over the topf [manually]). You are now watching the movie Harry Potter from your archive.
--> The recorded movie James Bond doesn't have sound/pictures from that moment on from which you were watching Harry Potter.

2. You record the movie James Bond on BBC one. This channel is live. You change to BBC two/NBC/CNN/MTV (or whatever, it really doesn't matter) before you watch Harry Potter. You watch Harry Potter.
--> The recorded movie James Bond is ok.

So, this problem should be solved with the newest firmware. This was exclusively a problem with the 03.2011 firmware.

As I understood you have the following problem:

You watch a football game (on BBC one). You make timeshift (live pause). Later on you watch the football game timeshifted.
--> no sound from that moment you restart the "recorded football game". Is this correct ??
Solution:
You watch a football game (on BBC one). You make timeshift. You have to change the live channel for example to BBC two. Now you should be able to watch the game without trouble.
Ehm, is this even possible ? Guys ? Or does he have to make a record from the football game ?

Greetings, VaniQ

[Eikka]

Isnt there difference between CI+ encoded and other way encoded channels. We have channels which need the precence of linked CI+module even after descramled so recording recorded from these channels could not be viewed outside linked device. We also have channels which are only descrabled but without bounding to CI+module and they are watchable eg in PC after descrabled with Toppy.
That CI+mule bounding was what I meant with "How can I solve out which channels are CI+ encoded"

This question is not clear for me. What do you want to ask ? Please rephrase this question.

I mean that if there ongoing recording in scrambled channel x and I am watching any other channel live, Can I start watch that ongoing recording from the beginning with timeshift by starting playback from archive so I never watched channel X live?

1. You record the movie James Bond on BBC one. This channel is live (because you take over the topf [manually]). You are now watching the movie Harry Potter from your archive.
--> The recorded movie James Bond doesn't have sound/pictures from that moment on from which you were watching Harry Potter.

2. You record the movie James Bond on BBC one. This channel is live. You change to BBC two/NBC/CNN/MTV (or whatever, it really doesn't matter) before you watch Harry Potter. You watch Harry Potter.
--> The recorded movie James Bond is ok.[/COLOR][/B]

So, this problem should be solved with the newest firmware. This was exclusively a problem with the 03.2011 firmware.

Do you mean that "live" is only the channel which is visible just now or was visible just before playback started? Or is channel also "LIVE" if its live on the other tuner alhought visible channel would be on the other tuner?

[VaniQ]

We have channels which need the precence of linked CI+module even after descramled so recording recorded from these channels could not be viewed outside linked device. We also have channels which are only descrabled but without bounding to CI+module and they are watchable eg in PC after descrabled with Toppy.
That CI+mule bounding was what I meant with "How can I solve out which channels are CI+ encoded"

You know I'm not an expert in these things. But there are some experts in this forum, they are just afraid to write in english, I guess

As far as I know.
It could be possible that a channel (for example BBC one [in Germany for example RTL and Pro7 channels are taking about this, but didn't go that far - up till now]) allows you the keep a recorded file for 2 hours or so. This "allowance" is part of the CI+ Code. But this depends on the channel station and doesn't have anything to do with your cableprovider. Actually every CI+ coded recording has an allowance duration to watch it. Normally it is 1 or 2 weeks but in Switzerland for example all "british" channels do have an allowance duration of 3 days (at least it was so 2 years ago). So, if you don't descramble your record (make it CI+ coded free) you are probably unable to watch your movie after some time.

Now the CI+ Coding or better CI+ Rules are very tricky. So, Topfield allows you to descramble a file and keep it forever as long as it is descrambled on your Toppy but the CI+ industry (and Topfield) doesn't allow you to copy this file to your computer. So, Topfield invented a new (a CI+ independant) encoding to make sure that this file is only watchable on your toppy and nowhere else.

So far to CI+ encoding. There exists a CI encoding but about this I don't know anything. Sorry. My guess is that you do have to use a second module/card (next to your CI+ module) to decode encoded files.

Thirdly, there are non decoded channels [FTA]. They are free and descrambling is impossible/nonsense. So, I'm not sure how your "decoded"/descrambled files can be created which you can copy and watch on your computer ? My guess is CI encoding. But I really don't know. Again Sorry

I mean that if there ongoing recording in scrambled channel x and I am watching any other channel live, Can I start watch that ongoing recording from the beginning with timeshift by starting playback from archive so I never watched channel X live?

Yes, that should be possible if you can make a timeshift recording from a channel which wasn't live at anytime. That was my question in the last post.

Solution:
You watch a football game (on BBC one). You make timeshift. You have to change the live channel for example to BBC two. Now you should be able to watch the game without trouble.
Ehm, is this even possible ? Guys ? Or does he have to make a record from the football game ?

But if it doesn't work you have to make an ordinary record from your "wish-timeshifted-record". You can watch a normal record while it is still recording.

Do you mean that "live" is only the channel which is visible just now or was visible just before playback started?

Exactly. You got it mate

Or is channel also "LIVE" if its live on the other tuner alhought visible channel would be on the other tuner?

No, this doesn't matter at all. Live is really just the channel you can watch "live" on your television. Live in the backround means the channel you were able to watch on your television right before watching a playback.

Hope I could help you (at least a bit). Greetings upnorth, VaniQ